Incarnation Reflections | Christmas with Lutheran Bible Translators

00:00
Rich Rudowske
That’s what the incarnation ultimately is. When there’s new information that sort of shifts your paradigm, that’s where your mind is drawn to say, wait, what’s that? I want to see that more. And how a close personal Jesus begins to emerge. 

Welcome to the Essentially Translatable podcast brought to you by Lutheran Bible Translators. I’m Rich Rudowske. 

00:27
Emily Wilson
And I’m Emily Wilson. 

00:28
Rich Rudowske
And we are wanting to wish you a Merry Christmas. 

00:32
Emily Wilson
Merry Christmas. 

00:33
Rich Rudowske
It’s that time of year again, our favorite time of year. And we got to thinking about what do we want to talk about on the Essentially Translatable this Christmas and a Bible translation ministry. Really digging into the translation of Scripture. Engagement with Scripture is inherently when you get that close to culture and language, it’s just an incarnational ministry. And so we put our heads together and said, let’s talk about and dig into the incarnation, that aspect of Christmas. 

01:03
Emily Wilson
So we really hope you enjoy this episode where Rich and I unpack a little bit of the incarnation throughout Old Testament, New Testament, and some examples of Bible translation and the incarnation. 

01:18
Rich Rudowske
Yep. And we pray that you’re blessed as we think about those implications of incarnation, how they aren’t just a nice topic to talk about, but they’re a very present reality in our lives as we walk in our walk of faith as Christians. Merry Christmas, everyone. Listening to the Essentially Translatable podcast, we are here in the studio. 

01:40
Emily Wilson
Merry Christmas. 

01:41
Rich Rudowske
And were going to talk some about the Incarnation. Just kind of dig in a little bit on that concept because that’s the amazing and just fantastic thing that happened at Christmas, is God became a man born in a stable or a little hotel. It’s hard to know. Or a little guest room. 

02:00
Emily Wilson
There is a manger. 

02:01
Rich Rudowske
There’s a manger. At least we know that. Yes, because that was part of the sign. And in that little baby is also the second person of the Trinity. And in the second person of the Trinity today, there’s a human being and all of this and more. So we’re just going to spend a little bit of our Christmas time digging into this concept of incarnation and talking about some things that the Bible says and how we got there and some of the implications. So let’s dig in. Where do you want to start? 

02:33
Emily Wilson
Okay, so you have a whole list of passages in front of you. Yes. But wanting to just kind of give our listeners an idea of where in the world we’re going. And we’ll try to also maybe take it a little bit slow so that you’re also able to maybe open up your bibles and read it for yourselves. And we’re going to be externally processing listeners. We love you. You’ve heard us externally process before, right? 

03:03
Rich Rudowske
If that’s not your jam, you can just turn it off. 

03:05
Emily Wilson
Oh, no, don’t turn it off. 

03:08
Rich Rudowske
We’re assuming that it’s possible that there’s that part of Christmas break where you’ve been on break and you’re hanging with your family and now you still haven’t gone back to work yet, and you’re like, saying, maybe I need to get away a little bit. So I’m going to turn on. 

03:19
Emily Wilson
I’m going to hang out with Rich and Emily. 

03:20
Rich Rudowske
Listen to them talk about the Incarnation. 

03:23
Emily Wilson
Yeah. So, Rich, you have in front of you a Greek Septuagint of the Old Testament, as well as the Hebrew of the Old Testament, which, you know, as I’m looking at, like it’s fun.  Hebrew is right to left. And so it looks like you’re at the end of the Bible. In fact, you’re at the beginning front. 

03:45
Rich Rudowske
From front to back. 

03:46
Emily Wilson
Right. Exactly. So our passages that were looking at starting in the Old Testament, Genesis, really from the beginning of thinking about Genesis 3:15. So flipping there and the context being, of course, that Adam and Eve have eaten the fruit, they have sinned against the Lord, and the direct disobedience results in their direct punishment, this curse. But in the same story, in the same breath, the Lord also promises for the redemption of his creation. So Genesis 3:15, God speaking to actually Satan in this, the serpent and I will cause hostility between you, Satan, serpent, and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring, he will strike your head and you will strike his heel is what the new living translation says. You have the English Standard Version up, I think, Rich. 

05:00
Rich Rudowske
Yeah, it’s basically, I mean, just not as clear English, basically. Sorry, ESV people. But no, I will put enmity between you and the woman. So this constant state of hostility between your offspring, or the Hebrew says ‘seed’, which is actually a thing that carries through. And almost anytime you see offspring in an English translation, the Hebrew word is going to be ‘seed’, which is kind of just a little bit earthy, but it’s the descendant, right? And so between your seed and his seed, he’ll bruise your head. You will bruise his heel. So there’s some idea that the way this is eventually going to get resolved is this ongoing strife, but ultimately the descendant of the woman is going to strike the head. And that sounds pretty final. And the descendant of Satan is just going to cause a lot of pain. 

05:53
Rich Rudowske
But it’s in comparison, just like striking the heel. 

05:56
Emily Wilson
Right? 

05:57
Rich Rudowske
Yeah. So the point that we’re kind of getting at with that is this is the first genesis, actually the beginning of the idea that God’s going to do something here and intervene. There’s actually not something here at this point that tells us it’s going to be God himself that is the descendants of the woman. Right. But we get this idea. In fact, if we go over to Genesis four one, that’s when Adam and Eve are now outside the Garden of Eden. And it says in four one, she conceived and bore Cain. And if you know the Bible narrative, we know Cain, not a great guy. But she says, I’ve gotten a man with the help of the Lord, or so I’ve given birth. What’s the NLT say? Do you have that there? 

06:35
Emily Wilson
With the Lord’s help, I have produced a man. 

06:37
Rich Rudowske
Yeah. So it’s like we again assume. I assume that this is the first child then that she’s had. So this is like a new experience in human history, but it’s sort of like the undertones of she heard this promise and she kind of thinks, well, okay, here it is. So we’re going to go. And ultimately, of course, that’s not what’s going to happen. And Cain actually just introduces more sin into the world. And there’s a little, just a side note there. But whenever humanity tries to think we’ve got it figured out, it’s not nearly as good or it’s actually quite bad compared to what God was planning to do. 

07:07
Emily Wilson
Right. Well, and we were just reading in Proverbs this morning in our devotions text that the man has all these plans, but really it’s the Lord’s will that prevails. But thinking about how right from the beginning before creation, that the Lord knew that this is what was going to happen and that he had a specific plan for his sacrifice of coming and recognizing as humanity that he loved us so much, that this great sacrifice of coming into the world and bearing our burdens and that feeling, that tension of the evil from the deceiver and the wounding, but also the triumph that happens. So what is central and it feels maybe so familiar, it’s foundational to our faith that sometimes just the glossing over. But that promise right from the beginning is this anatomy, right. Of actually stepping on and then crushing of, is all embodied. 

08:21
Emily Wilson
And we work from that. This is what we understand, this is what we know. And so other passages throughout scripture have this embodiment language. And so looking at Exodus for example, we’re going to be turning into Exodus 15, sharing some examples of this embodiment of God. And I’m going to have you read from the English Standard Version, because I think we’ll get the New Living Translation as well. But the idea of sometimes there’s this removal that can happen, this separation of this, you said before, this earthy sort of imagery, this earthy imagery that we try to remove ourselves from and you’ll unpack that a little bit for us. Right, Rich? 

09:17
Rich Rudowske
Yeah. In the ancient text, the Genesis text, the patriarchs, and in the earlier books of the Old Testament, God is pretty close to people. And people talk to him, he talks to them, they see him. And that’s just the way there’s maybe a number of factors. It’s probably the mindset and the worldview of people. So all scripture is inspired, but it’s also inspired and delivered in a time, in a context, in a place. And so the worldview of the people, very aware of spiritual power and gods and things like that, but just the way the familiarity that they talk about God. Exodus 15:3 in the English Standard Version says, the Lord is a man of war. The Lord is His name. So you got the Lord and you got a man of war. So very much these human characteristics of him. 

10:05
Rich Rudowske
And the Lord there is his proper name, Yahweh. And this, by the way, Exodus 15 is the song following the destruction of the Egyptians in the Red Sea. And this is the song that follows. So it’s actually some of the oldest remaining Hebrew that exists, too. And in Exodus 15:3, it reads in Hebrew, “Yahweh, ishma, kama, Yahweh, Shamo,” which again means, “Yahweh is a man of war. Yahweh is his name”, which is exactly, basically what the English Standard Version has there. The New Living Translation is pretty close to this, but go ahead and… 

10:38
Emily Wilson
Right, so the Lord is a warrior. Yahweh is his name. 

10:42
Rich Rudowske
Yeah. So a warrior, which is, again, ultimately, that’s a man of war. But it still doesn’t sound quite as, like right there, a man of war. But what we’re kind of trying to just. Or to demonstrate here is that as the history of God’s people develop and as other language developed as well, and the word of God was translated into Greek first, the Old Testament part of that also just creates different language, a different worldview. And a lot of what happens in the Greek Old Testament is sort of softening this thing up and creating a little distance between people and God. So the Greek Old Testament is translated much later after the Babylonian exile. 

11:23
Rich Rudowske
There’s all kinds of Hebrew people, or that they, at this point, begin to refer to themselves as Jewish people scattered all over the place, many whom never returned to Israel after the exile. And they speak Greek, so they can’t even access the Hebrew text. And so a decision was made at some point. The number one thing about God’s Word is it needs to be understood, so it’s okay to translate it. And it’s still God’s Word if you translate it. So just a little plug for Bible translation. But that’s the first time in history that the idea arises as well, and it’s still just as much God’s Word. And yet language and translation is complicated. In Greek, Exodus 15:3 says “Kuria suntribon Polemus”, which means, “Yahweh destroys in war” or “is mighty in war”, and then “Kuria Sonoma” to “the Lord is his name”. 

12:09
Rich Rudowske
And so that’s a different thing than is a man of war. It’s like talking about his power and his majesty. And just in the whole vein, in conversation of talking about incarnation, we’re going to wrestle with the tension that both things are true, that the Lord is majestic, all powerful, all knowing. And yet in the incarnation of Jesus, all of that is also personal and close and near and in a body. 

12:43
Emily Wilson
I think that too, something of just being able to understand what the Greek philosophy was surrounding the temporal, the purpose of that there was a separation in Greek philosophy of that the body, the things that we see, the things that we can touch was not sacred, or that were always striving for something spirit beyond our ability to really interact with in earthy ways. And so being able to recognize that there are some influences that happen there culturally of. It’s uncomfortable to imagine God incarnate because it’s messy, right? I know that being able to talk about the closeness to humanity that was very integral of the tabernacle and God’s presence among his people. But sometimes we remove the actual presence from that. It becomes heavily spiritual, only without the physical. 

14:00
Emily Wilson
And I think that there may have been some struggle in that with the Greek influence of culture and philosophy and into the translation of uncomfortable to equate the Lord with humanity like a man of war, and instead saying, I’m going to work through this means through people, but not be equated himself. And so just this tension of this rejection of the earthy and into only spiritual. And there are all kinds of heresies that have developed over the years related. 

14:42
Rich Rudowske
To that it creates an artificial dichotomy, really. And that’s the thing. And of course, we’re not Greek or anything like that, but our worldview and what’s generally called the western worldview and approach and outlook to the world is significantly influenced by this idea, this stronger separation of spiritual and physical. And they are separate, but they’re not strongly separate. You can see in many other places in the world, even today, and from ancient literature, from sources that are outside of Greek influenced Western places, that there’s just a much more integrated view of things that are spiritual and physical. So the point for we assume most of our podcast listeners are more from a Western audience. 

15:25
Rich Rudowske
And so for you folks, we’re just really kind of leaning in on the fact that incarnation then, really, especially in this season, when we can focus on this aspect of who Christ is, it really gives us the opportunity to remember how everything is spiritual and physical and integrated, and no more so in any other way or space than Jesus himself. And that’s what happens at Christmas. And then through the life and work of mean. There are other books in the Old Testament, if you sort of just begin to see, for a number of reasons, the story of God’s people get the prophets. So then you don’t see God speaking as much directly to people, although God speaks to those prophets a ton. 

16:11
Rich Rudowske
But then Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther is a lot of just kind of God’s presence is mentioned and alluded to, but you don’t actually really see him speak much at all. In those, you get the books that recount things between the Old and New Testament, and they’re a lot like Ezra, Nehemiah and Esther in terms of just they’re recounting the history, and people have a great history and a trust in God, but you don’t see a lot of God speaking, part of which is alluded to in Malachi as well, that there will be a great prophet. And then there’s this long silence, right? And then you get Jesus coming in. In Luke, you’ve got, “… in those days, Caesar Augustus issued a decree that a census should be taken” of the entire Roman world. 

16:51
Rich Rudowske
So you have Caesar Augustus issue a decree that moves Joseph to where he’s supposed to be, for Mary to give birth, for Jesus to be born in Bethlehem, because that’s what’s know God moving. And then we’re going to take in John. This is like some of the biggest and highest theological language about what is really happening with Jesus. He’s referred to as the Word. In the beginning was the word, and the Word was with God. The Word was God, all right. He was there with God in the beginning. Everything that was made through him. That just keeps just unpacking. Like there’s this huge mind blowing concept. And then it really reaches a point at 1:14. In Greek, it says “kyologos sarksaganata”, which is, and “the word flesh”, and “kai escanason”, and “haymin”, which means, “He became flesh and tabernacled among us.” 

17:49
Rich Rudowske
Tabernacle, he camped, he tented, like he was in and present with us, but mobile and moved around and was just right there as part of life and experience. So this word that’s the creation and beginning of all things becomes that, like all kind of wrapped up into a tent. And then I’ll just read the rest of the verse and we’ll unpack it. “Kayathe mesta, tain, daksan”. We saw glory alt his glory, dachshund, hos, moneganus. That’s parapatros. It’s the glory of the only begotten, unique one. We don’t have a good English word for this, but it’s the same thing in John 3:16, the only begotten son, right. Or the unique son from the father play race, which is full haratos Kayalathius, of grace and truth. This is what Jesus tabernacle-ing among us is. It’s this word. 

18:46
Rich Rudowske
It’s in a person ultimately overflowing, filled to the brim with both of those things. So let’s talk a little bit about know in a sort of a cosmic perspective put on that frame of reference or those goggles where you can see this is what’s happening. 

18:59
Emily Wilson
Well, first of all, I just want to acknowledge the fact that so many people say, start with John for people who are unfamiliar with the Gospels. And yet, I think I’ve said this before on the podcast, like, oh my goodness, this is so complex. But such amazing news, especially when you’re thinking about the wandering in the wilderness and how they were so dependent upon the Lord guiding them in a pillar of cloud and the pillar of fire and his presence in the tabernacle and this holy space. But it was in the camp, it was among the people right there and not set up on a high mountain somewhere. And that this word becoming flesh and making his dwelling among us. So the New Living Translation I appreciate, because sometimes we don’t use the word dwelling, even though I love that word. 

20:07
Emily Wilson
It’s not something that we use very much in the English language. So the New Living Translation in verse 14 of John 1 says, so the word became human and made his home among us. He was full of unfailing love and faithfulness, and we have seen his glory, the glory of the father’s one and only son. 

20:32
Rich Rudowske
I wanted to just talk a little bit about that tabernacle-ing word and a little bit more because it’s an interesting word. He dwelt among us, or he tabernacled among us. A tabernacle. When you go back to the Old Testament, it’s this holy place, and yet it can move around. And that means that it’s not so set apart that it’s inaccessible. It’s where you need it to be. It’s near you. It gets set up in places sometimes that you don’t expect it to get set up, but that’s where you are. And Jesus definitely in his life, right? He was in Jerusalem, but he was in Samaria talking to a woman at the well. Like, you’re not supposed to do that. He’s in the garrisons where there’s this demon possessed man. 

21:14
Rich Rudowske
And it’s actually quite a bit of that kind of activity there, the Decapolis, which is like just this area that’s set aside to the worship of many false gods. And he’s always in these places that you don’t expect him to be, but that’s where grace and truth needs to be. And yet he’s also in the temple itself and among the folks who are more overtly, strongly religious and practicing more formal and organized religion as well. So it’s just an interesting way to talk about, like, he dwelt among us. Yes, he lived among us vessels and moved around among us and was everywhere. 

21:48
Emily Wilson
Yeah. And he was visible to the Jew and the Gentile, like, in the same way that in the wilderness, others would have seen the pillar of cloud and fire, and they would have been surrounded in the wilderness by other communities, other people besides Israelites. And so taking that imagery of here’s this people group that’s moving around and God being at the center and God being visible to other nations, and that other nations also camped among the Israelites. And in the same vein, you’re saying Jesus moved around. He didn’t stay in one area, he didn’t stay in the holy city of Jerusalem and only proclaiming good news to the good Jews, the teachers of the law. But instead that he was incarnate among and to the nations and bringing healing and his presence to the nations. 

22:56
Emily Wilson
And that he also called his people to be incarnate among the nations as well. And the embodiment of him. 

23:05
Rich Rudowske
Yeah. To. And then, you know, ultimately, even just in the scope of the whole world, the person, Jesus’ physical. Movements on earth are not a huge swath of land, but enough variation there that you see that. And the result of this is no particular nation or group of people has a claim on Jesus that he’s only their God or that he belongs only to them. The Incarnation of Jesus, ultimately, is for everyone the part of the Shekgalagari text I wanted to look at. I’ve got a Shekgalagari Gospel of Luke. So, Shekgalagari is a language in Botswana. It’s the language that my family and I helped start a Bible translation in. And the first Christmas that were there, the very first text that we translated was Luke, chapter 2:1-20. 

23:52
Rich Rudowske
The first time we translated it needed some work, but we printed it and distributed it, and that was a big flop because Shekgalagari had not been a written language used very much before. So there was a lot of distractedness about how things were written and arguments about like this doesn’t make sense. And it’s true. There was work to be done on it. So we took the exact same text, though, and recorded it. And then this is long enough ago that we distributed out on cds, and people had CD players, and they loved it. I mean, it was exactly the same text. But this hearing in your own language a story, first of all, there’s something incarnational about that in itself. That was beautiful, that people. 

24:35
Rich Rudowske
Christianity is not completely foreign to the Bakalagari people, but it’s generally been communicated in a different language, the Bible. It’s used as a Bible from a neighboring language, and so that brings with it an element of distance to it. And to hear a story about Christmas, Jesus birth, ultimately incarnational in your own language is very incarnational itself. And I’m going to read verse ten. This is after Jesus is born, the angel appears, and in Shekgalagari, it’s Moangle Abaraya Arya. The angel said to them, she choke, which is don’t fear. Bona. Look. Kelejwela mahoko ua molemo. I’m bringing to you a good word. A word that’s good. Ua daho ikumerista, bachubote. A word that’s going to cause rejoicing for all people. Home bay. It’s today. Mozing Wahatafite. That’s the. In the city of David E. Le Zaleki has been born for you a savior. 

25:42
Rich Rudowske
But this word, zalewa is to be born, but it’s made passive. That wa at the end makes it passive, and that’s not a normal way of saying it. And it was chosen on purpose because it makes you stop. It makes you say, what do you mean, born to you? In passive English, it would be like something’s born, but you didn’t bear it. It was born by someone else, but is born for you. There isn’t a really perfect way to say that, but it makes you stop and start to have the discussion, which is a great thing in Shekgalagari speaking culture. Why are we not saying just Zelela? A Savior is born. We want to know that it’s born on your behalf. This is for you. And to say that is like the beginning of saying this thing is really close. 

26:36
Rich Rudowske
This isn’t just something that’s for someone else or far away. This is the incarnation. This is close to you. 

26:44
Emily Wilson
It’s for you that God’s gift is for you and that it is close. It is nothing that was earned. Right. And instead that the gift was given freely. And it makes no sense. Right. As far as human logic, the incarnation is folly. Again, like drawing from Genesis 3, it makes no sense why the Lord would from all of creation know that we’re going to sin against Him and He created us anyway. And yet this is the love of the Lord. 

27:26
Rich Rudowske
Yeah. And it was a great experience to hear. People just loved listening to that text. They knew the story, and yet it was different to hear this say that word, particularly, and to then hear, to explain and to start thinking, okay, if there was angel that was going to appear and tell us this, if they was appearing in our fields telling our shepherds this is what they would say. And that just brings it close in a way that. I don’t know. It’s hard to describe when you’ve always had access to scripture in your language. It’s just I grew up hearing that story. I can remember the first time I realized and made the connection in my little brain, okay, Christmas is about Jesus being born, and that’s for me. 

28:06
Rich Rudowske
And, yeah, to have tried to hear that in some other language and try to wrestle around with that and the foreignness that implies is really. So, again, distance versus closeness. God is over all things majestic, but he’s also close, and the incarnation shows that. So I had just a couple other passages from Shekgalagari that sort of show you the importance of making things more familiar. And so, again, the background here is that just using other language and sometimes antiquated language has had the effect of making Jesus seem sort of mysterious. And distant in the Bakgalagari culture, like other spirits or ancestors may be. In Luke 19, there’s the triumphal entry on Palm Sunday. Before that, Jesus goes and tells them to take a donkey for him. 

28:58
Rich Rudowske
And in verse 31, he says to his disciples, hale chenna mojo, when you go in there, le dako hitela tonkana, you’re going to find this small donkey. Ehole shilwe. So Tonkana, when that was first in there, everybody said, what is this? And the text that they had, the liturgies that are there in the area using the neighboring language, used this other word, isala, which is an older word in those languages meaning donkey. But most even in that neighboring language, they say this word donkey for donkey instead. So they had just come to expect that whatever it was Jesus was riding on was some mythical creature type thing equivalent that Jesus has. Clearly not earthy, and it’s just a thing that made him more distant. So again, maybe I’m just really beating the drum hard here, but when you understand, they really wrestle with. 

29:49
Rich Rudowske
Are you saying that Jesus was just riding a small donkey? A not. That’s not what we are used to. Expecting to see that Jesus is going to ride on or hear that he’s riding on, that makes him more like us? And there’s something powerful about that, incarnationally. 

30:05
Emily Wilson
Yeah. And just as you’re talking about all of these examples that it is brought up in my mind, how many examples in English of reading know Jesus sweating and that even Jesus washing the disciples feet like that, he got down, he had a cloth in his, you know, had his hands in the water and taking care of it and experiencing the muck and the mud and the humility of. There’s so many of the tangibles, even like Jesus spit and created mud so he could put it on the man’s eyes, and that there’s so many earthy ways that Jesus demonstrated his presence and that it was not just, oh, this is an interesting little aside, or this paints a picture. No, this is how he demonstrated that he was fully man and yet fully God, that he was able to redeem and work miracles. 

31:14
Rich Rudowske
Yeah, one more example from Shekgalagari. We’ll just kind of lean into some of the English stuff following that. But this is Luke 24. Again, these were some of the first passages that we translated here and just learned more about how people saw Jesus in the world. So Luke 24 is where Jesus rises from the dead. But then there’s the story of the disciples on the road to Emmaus, and when we pick it up at verse 30, he’s arrived at the village with them after having talked with them along the way, and he proceeds like he’s going to go on further. So verse 29, actually, in Shekgalagari, “ba mokopa bari”, they begged him or strongly urged him, saying, “rula lechwe”, so stay with us here. And by the way, this rula is the same we have in English. 

32:00
Rich Rudowske
We have dwell, we have abide, we have live a lot of languages. Just capture all of that in one word, and that’s this word here. So stay, remain with us, abide with us, dwell with us, be with us, be present with us. Right? Which is what jesus does in the incarnation. So he said, yeah, ruler, stay with us here, Boya. The day is coming to an end. Leache le Rockwood. It’s over. Okay. Bejesu achena moitung yabo. So he entered into their house with Marula Nabo. He stayed with them. Yari nj nabo hatafoling. So then they came to a table and sat at Sola Barokcho. He took bread, Alibuka Morimo. He blessed God abebe abo kokanya baneo, and he began to give it to him. So this barocho, there is bread again. 

32:55
Rich Rudowske
In so many of the neighboring translations, there was an older word for bread that was unknown as bread anymore. And so they believed that Jesus went at communion at this event. Whatever it is he’s taking, it’s like, well, they just picture it’s these little wafers that you have at communion time in your church, right? That he’s always just got these things, and that’s what he’s breaking. And so when the translators put Barocho in there, it was saying to people that it was the bread they were going to eat. He took normal bread and blessed that. And again, it’s not like a matter of like, okay, so we’re supposed to use normal bread. It’s just like. You mean Jesus is just like us? Like, this is too. At the end of the day, when it’s evening, we’re not going to travel any further. 

33:34
Rich Rudowske
It’s dangerous to travel out there. We’re going to invite people in, we’re going to sit and break bread or palette porridge. And Jesus is just like us. And it was remarkable to see these are just three examples. But how that’s where the focus went. It’s the way communication works is when there’s new information that sort of shifts your paradigm. That’s where your mind is drawn to say, wait, what’s that? I want to see that more and how close personal Jesus begins to emerge for the Bakalahari. But that’s what the incarnation ultimately is this majestic, all powerful God is present walking with us and remains with us. 

34:14
Emily Wilson
And just as you’re talking over and over about walking with us, I’m reminded of in Genesis that God walked in the garden with Adam and with Eve, and that this was how God created in his relationship and the restoration that he brings with Christ, that he’s walking among his people again and that they see him. They don’t necessarily fully understand. They’re still living in this tension of this already, that the Lord is redeeming his creation, and yet they are rejecting him, too, and continuing to recognize that the incarnation is a mystery and yet so concrete that it is beyond our comprehension and yet so understandable that even children say God sent his son in this little baby, and he grew up and he lived a perfect life and he died for us and he rose. 

35:26
Emily Wilson
And so complex and yet so fundamental to not only our faith of understanding who God is, but also who we are called to be in him because he said not only that he has taken on our flesh, but he’s also called us to be his ambassadors. Right. And walking out and being incarnational in the way of being his hands and feet, that too is very earthy of. What does that look like? To say that God has sent his Son, but he’s also sent us to embody him to the nations. 

36:12
Rich Rudowske
Yeah. To be in the mess and to walk among us, which is what he did. On our prior Christmas episode, we landed on this a little bit of, if Jesus is going into the world at that know, first century Middle east is not a great place to go and be born. There’s not a lot of great health care. It’s kind of dirty and messy, but that’s where God chose to make himself present and incarnate in that place, and from there radiate out in the rest of the world. I think where we’ll go from here is just what are some of the implications? What are some of the things that this brings to mind? For me, one of them is Hebrews 4:15. So as you said, even little kids can say, yeah, God came into the world as Jesus, and he died for our sins. 

36:57
Rich Rudowske
And there’s that. And there’s this very present and complex reality of Hebrews 4:15. We don’t have a high priest. So Jesus, again, who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin. So all of whatever it is that we struggle with, that we continually turn back to and fall into again and again. Jesus knows what it’s like to live in that tension. He was tempted. He also experienced temptation, and yet he didn’t have sin. But he still knows what it feels like to have that thing that triggers you back to the behavior you don’t want to do or the thing you don’t want to think or the way you don’t want to be. 

37:42
Rich Rudowske
He knows that, and so he can relate to that, and we can pour out our struggles before him. 

37:50
Emily Wilson
Yeah, I’m just reading it from the new living translation in front of me. This high priest of ours understands our weaknesses, for he faced all of the same testings we do, yet he did not sin. And so let us come boldly to the throne of our gracious God. There we will receive his mercy, and we will find grace to help us when we need it most. 

38:13
Rich Rudowkse
Right. 

38:14
Emily Wilson
And I think that there’s a campaign right now of like, or there was of like. He gets us. He gets you still gone. 

38:23
Rich Rudowske
Yes. 

38:24
Emily Wilson
And he gets us. And so let us be different. Let us be transformed into his likeness, that he did not come to bear our shame and all of the brokenness for us to stay the same. The idea of he became man and bore our punishment. But that it’s, in a way, it’s like, okay, he went through everything that I would go through in my lifetime. Abandonment, betrayal, rejection. What is it that we talked about in devotions of injustice and slander? He went through all of that, and yet he remained perfect. We will go through all of that, and we will be far from perfect. And yet he calls us to be like him, to continually be renewed and living into that redemption. What does it look like for us to be incarnate? 

39:43
Emily Wilson
What does it look like for us to be transformed and this renewal of our minds and being a new creation? He is the firstborn of new creation in the resurrection. We’re supposed to be resurrection people. So I know I’m getting my holidays all mixed up. 

40:02
Rich Rudowske
That’s the thing, right? 

40:03
Emily Wilson
But that it’s this anticipation. Christmas is this reminder and this celebration, but it is also this advent. Sometimes we get lost in advent and think that it’s about all of the anticipation of Christmas. And what it really is the anticipation of his second coming, because it is the looking forward to the new creation, and that’s what he has given us, and that’s what we’re supposed to also give to others. In our love, in our acts of service, in our deeds of faith are all supposed to be incarnate and ambassadors for him. 

40:43
Rich Rudowske
Yeah. And I think it’s critically important that sometimes the idea is put out there that. So Jesus came, he gets us. And I’m not saying the campaign saying this, but a way that can be interpreted is he lived the same way than the same problems we did, and he showed us a better way. So you can follow that way. That’s true, but it’s not complete. He also made possible to follow that way by his death and resurrection. Any obstacle that remains between us and God is fully removed, and we’re just completely freed to focus on. There’s a different way. There’s a better way. There’s a way that scripture tells us that it’s possible to live and to love and also to be called back to repentance, because as human beings, we’re always going to have our struggles. But there’s a better way. 

41:35
Rich Rudowske
There’s a better way. And Jesus not only shows us the way, he makes it possible and empowers us to be in that way, too. 

41:43
Emily Wilson
Walk in that way, because he is the way. 

41:45
Rich Rudowske
He is the. 

41:48
Emily Wilson
Just. I think that maybe sometimes we reduce Jesus to “He understands our weaknesses”. So he’s just this buddy, he’s this friend, and he’s so much more than that. Like, yes, he is our friend. He said, I call you. Yet, you know, there’s this challenge that pastoral leadership, institutes of like, high challenge and high invitation. He does both in the like. We are high invitation, welcome to his side. Because he was among us. He understood our weaknesses, and yet he calls us to be like him through his grace, through his redeeming power of the Holy Spirit’s gift. Right? That’s the other part of the story, is the incarnation, but then also the gift of our great helper and the advocate as we are not left alone as orphans, but instead that he’s like, I know you can’t do this on your own. 

42:56
Emily Wilson
I’ve made this new, but you cannot keep going on your own. And I am going to continue to dwell among you. In fact, I’m going to dwell in you. 

43:07
Rich Rudowske
Yes. And to come back to the idea of Jesus isn’t just our buddy in saying so. He gets us. So you can just kind of be who you are. I mean, romans three, really? This is some of the most complex theology in the Bible. God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement through the shedding of his blood, to be received by faith. All right. So that’s the incarnation ultimately also results in God presented Christ. Christ is God. God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement through the shedding of his blood, to be received by faith. And then he did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance, which means he kind of let things go, it didn’t immediately punish, right. He had left sins committed beforehand unpunished. Verse 26 in Romans 3, he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time. 

44:00
Rich Rudowske
So he is the one who is both just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Christ Jesus. So you’re just because Christ is just, and yet you’re justified because Christ justifies you. And this is what God presented in Christ in the incarnation. That is what makes the way. Is that too complex to leave in the podcast? 

44:25
Emily Wilson
Well, I’m reading the New Living Translation, so I’m trying to follow along with. 

44:30
Rich Rudowske
Just all of it is like there’s tension, it’s so strong in every point. So it’s like, well, do you mean this? No, it’s also this. Do you mean this? No, but it’s also this, like you can’t go off one end or the other. Even in the embodiment of Jesus himself, fully God and fully man. So how much God and how much man? All of it. Yeah. And so, yeah, it’s just wild. It’s mind boggling. 

44:56
Emily Wilson
It can be the title incarnation, it’s mind boggling. 

45:01
Rich Rudowske
The rest of the passages I had looked up just thinking about incarnation really just wanted to drill down on reminding ourselves of how close God is to us and how close then Christ is to us. And this, we’re close to God because we’re close to Christ. In the gospel of John says, if you’ve seen me, jesus says, if you’ve seen me, you’ve seen the father. That’s the way that we explain and understand who God is and his nature by what Christ does. So Psalm 34:18, the Lord is close to the broken hearted. Revelation 1:17 and 18. I love that one because Jesus, now the resurrected Jesus, is standing there before John and saying, I died and I live again, and I have the keys of death in, you know, the worst thing as a human being that can be experienced death. 

45:52
Rich Rudowske
I’ve been there just the way it says it. I died and I rose again. And now I’ve got the keys and just the closeness, knowing that he’s close and he’s got the keys, whatever it is, that is your struggle that feels insurmountable right now. Jesus has been there, and he’s got the keys following him. Are you going to feel instant relief in this life? Is it ever even going to get resolved in this life? We don’t know. That’s up to God. But we do know that love, the word made flesh, walked among us, tabernacle among us. He’s close. He wept, he ate food, he got tired, he got hungry. He died, and he rose again. And he calls us to follow him. And so I love that revelation passage there and Revelation 21, he will wipe away every tear from their eyes. 

46:45
Rich
And 2 Corinthians 1-4 there’s that call that we comfort each other with, the comfort that has been given to us, just this real closeness and these results of, hey, if God has become a man and walked among us and been with us and knows us and then freed us to be in right relationship with God and then say that first result of sin was to be turned in on ourselves and to be separated from God, now we’re not separated from God. We could turn back out. And there’s all these people here to love and to walk in right relationship with, to forgive, to help, to comfort. And Jesus, that tear is going to wipe away every tear from our eyes. He puts a cloth in our hand and says, go and do that. 

47:33
Rich Rudowske
And if I had to quote Linus, that’s what Christmas is all is. You have the event. But that event is a hinge upon which all history turns and has ongoing implications that will never end. And even when Jesus comes back, then all those who are his will be gathered to him. But it all finds its start at a manger in Bethlehem, a little baby being born, and that just reverberates throughout all of history. 

48:13
Emily Wilson
We’re so glad that you’ve been able to join us on this special Christmas podcast episode on Essentially Translatable, and we pray that you and your family have a very blessed Christmas, that you get to share the love of Christ incarnate with your friends, families, neighbors, people you may have never met yet. We thank you and God bless you. 

48:40
Rich Rudowske
Thank you for listening to the Essentially Translatable podcast brought to you by Lutheran Bible Translators. You can find past episodes of the podcast at lbt.org/podcast or subscribe on audible, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Follow Lutheran Bible Translators’ social media channels on Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter or go to lbt.org to find out how you can get involved in the Bible translation movement and put God’s Word in their hands.

The Essentially Translatable podcast is edited and produced by Audrey Seider. Our executive producer is Emily Wilson. Artwork designed by Sarah Rudowske. Music written and performed by Rob Veith. I’m Rich Rudowske. So long for now.