Cameroon Programs

00:00
John Ndemba
We have not seen throughout the project this kind of mobilization and zeal for God. 

00:07
Mike Kuhn
When it’s hard and when the backdrop is dark in a spiritual sense, the light of the gospel among those christians shines all the brighter. 

00:24
Rich Rudowske
Welcome to the Essentially Translatable podcast brought to you by Lutheran Bible Translators. I’m Rich Rudowske. 

00:29
Emily Wilson
And I’m Emily Wilson. 

00:30
Rich Rudowske
And I’m excited today that we’re going to lean into some of the research that’s going on Bible translation. We’re talking with John Ndemba and Mike Kuhn from Cameroon, who are involved in a project called Suram S-U-R-A-M which stands for Scripture Use, Research And Ministry. It’s a wide ranging, large scope project on the effects of translated scripture in Cameroon. 

00:56
Emily Wilson
A little bit about Reverend Mike Kuhn. He has served in a variety of capacities in Cameroon, ranging from the NISA translation advisor in Cameroon, and now he is working with the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Cameroon with four language communities and has been participating there. And he’s actually also in the middle of his doctoral studies at Trinity Western in Canada. And then John Ndemba has been serving alongside Cameroon language community since 2018. 

01:30
Emily Wilson
The roles that he has played over the years include facilitating workshops as well as working with the Cameroon association for Bible Translation and Literacy, facilitating the work there, and organizing translation, linguistic literacy, and scripture engagement work. And both John and Mike’s work in Cameroon is phenomenal. And just a little glimpse about the work that is happening around the world. We, as Lutheran Bible Translators just had the opportunity to share at our Concordia University Irvine event “More Than Words” gathering, the amazing work happening around the world with men and women like John and Mike who are passionate about God’s word going forth in the language they know best. And we want to encourage you, as you are listening in on this interview with Mike and John, that you will be joining us in prayer for the work that is happening in Cameroon. 

02:38
Rich Rudowske
All right, on the line today, we. 

02:39
Rich Rudowske
Have Mr. John and Demba and Pastor Mike Kuhn from Cameroon coming to us, and we are going to talk with them about some exciting work going on there. So welcome to the podcast, guys. 

02:48
Emily Wilson
Welcome. 

02:49
Mike Kuhn
Thank you. Glad to be here. 

02:51
John Ndemba
Thank you very much. 

02:52
Rich Rudowske
All right, so we are going to talk about a project called SURAM. And just to get started with the audience here, we’d like to know, and even I would like to know, what does SURAM stand for? What does that acronym mean? And what is it you guys are doing? 

03:08
John Ndemba
Okay, thank you very much. We are actually very excited to be on this podcast. SURAM means Scripture Use, Research And Ministry. So that’s the full meaning of SURAM. 

03:21
Rich Rudowske
Before we jump in a little bit more on the project, we want to know about who you guys are. Talk about your roles in the project and your background service, and how you became involved in Bible translation ministry and this project particularly. 

03:34
John Ndemba
Okay, like you mentioned already, my name is John Ndemba Fokwa. Ifokwa is the given name that was given to me by my parents. I started working with Bible Translation project back in 2016. When I started with Cameroon association for Bible Translation and Literacy, I was a cluster facilitator, facilitating community projects that we had to do. Scripture engagement, Bible translation, language development. I worked with quite a few communities around southwest region and Cameroon as a whole. I did quite a lot, so I gained a lot of experience working with communities as far as Bible translation, scripture engagement, and other activities related to Bible translation are concerned. So in 2022, my hierarchy recommended me to get into Suram that was beginning new in Cameroon. I came along with lot of other people who were interested. 

04:44
John Ndemba
Luckily, God wanted me to be at the helm, so I came in as a coordinator for the Suram project. And while there, were together trying to recruit other people that today constitute the Suram team. So that is how I came in and the experience I got, and that is how I got in here. 

05:08
Mike Kuhn
And for me, I’m an ordained pastor in Lutheran Church Canada. I’m a missionary now with Lutheran Bible translators up Canada. I’ve been serving in Cameroon since 2013. I got into Bible translation because I know how important the message of the Gospel has been in my life. And when I heard that there are people in the world that don’t yet have the ability or capacity to hear about that life changing message in their own mother tongue, I really wanted to be a part of providing a solution in at least one language for that problem. I got involved in SURAM, the recommendation of a mentor in a doctoral program that I’m involved in at ACT seminaries in Trinity Western University in Canada. He recommended that I knock on John’s door to see if there was something I could do to help. 

05:56
Mike Kuhn
They were actively recruiting for a data analyst, and it seemed like a good fit for me. So that’s the role that I’ve filled since I came on board the SURAM project two years ago. 

06:06
Emily Wilson
That’s awesome. And it really does sound like there is a lot of data. 

06:11
Rich Rudowske
So just maybe tell us a little bit about. So you’re working on a research project? Scripture Use Research And Ministry. How long have you been working on it and just in high level detail. What kinds of things have you been doing? 

06:25
John Ndemba
Okay, Suram is an idea that started in 2021, and the idea actually went operational in 2022. So we started the project with partners that came together. I am sure as we go on, we are going to know who these partners are. But the project started since 2022, and we are already here. Its lifespan was from 2022 right up to 2024. So Suram Cameroon, that is the final name that it was given post to last two years. So here we are right now. 

07:06
Emily Wilson
So the idea of the research and ministry component with Scripture use and thinking about engaging with scripture, can you share a little bit about the diversity of languages in Cameroon? What is it that we’re really looking at for our audiences? Because even though there are so many languages around the United States, only some of the population would consider themselves multilingual and really interacting in that way. So can you share more about what’s happening in Cameroon linguistically? 

07:43
Mike Kuhn
Sure, I’ll take that one. Cameroon is one of the more linguistically diverse countries in the world. This is the second Surram project. The first one happened in, I think, the most linguistically diverse country, Papua New Guinea. Cameroon has 270 spoken living languages with scriptures already produced for about 50 of those languages. So there’s still roughly 220 languages that have little to no Scripture. So it’s a really great context to do a research project like this because there’s already been quite a bit of work done. So there’s places we can go and ask questions and learn about what’s happening, to research the level of Scripture use in the different communities that are participating. But there’s so much more opportunity in Cameroon and neighboring countries. 

08:29
Mike Kuhn
Nigeria is also incredibly diverse, and I think that the things we find here ought to apply quite readily as well to the Nigerian context and other countries as well in sub-Saharan Africa. But, yeah, we’re looking forward to really seeing what the data shows, what we can recommend for Bible translation organizations. Yeah, I’m excited about the project. 

08:49
Emily Wilson
So what kinds of questions are you asking as you’re doing research? Because I am very unfamiliar. We pray for you all during our prayer times, in devotions and through the prayer calendar. But as far as what does that look like as you are meeting with language communities, what kinds of questions are you asking? 

09:09
Mike Kuhn
Yeah, Suram has three main research questions. The first main research question is how much of the scriptures that have been published being used. We’re trying to get a handle on how many people are using it, how broadly the use is affirmeated a community in terms of the territory it covers, and also what are the different domains of use scripture in each of the communities. That’s the first research question. The second research question is, what impact does it have? And even for impact, we’re looking at three main measurements. We’re trying to figure out what kind of a personal impact the scriptures are having in the people’s lives who are reading them. 

09:43
Mike Kuhn
We’re trying to discern what kind of impact it’s having on the churches, the congregations and the denominations, but also on the communities, to see if it’s actually bringing more harmony or development in the communities where scripture is going out and being used. And then the third research question is, what factors are contributing to high use and impact, and what factors are detracting from high use and impact. So we have a lot of questions on four different research instruments, different surveys, trying to ask different groups in each community a bunch of questions to try to get our heads around all these factors that can contribute to or detract from scripture use. 

10:22
Emily Wilson
So you were sharing about some of the methodology, some of the questions that you are unpacking, talking about the impact and how often there is a use case, and what kinds of barriers or questions are adding to or subtracting from. So as far as the involvement, like who all is involved in these studies for SURAM, how large is your team and what is generally speaking, does everyone do pretty much the same thing and just heading in different directions, or do you each have unique roles? 

11:03
John Ndemba
SURAM is made up of six staff, a coordinator that is leading all the activities that we carry out in the field as a team. We have two surveyors. One is in charge of the anglophone regions and the other is in charge of the francophone regions. Since Cameroon is a bilingual country, we have two data analysts. That is Mike, Reverend Mike and Freddie Emmanuel, who is working from Douala. So Reverend Mike and Freddie are actually working remotely from Ngandere and Duala. But we find a time to coordinate every time we have to meet together to be able to get the work going. I think that is all about the team, the main team, but we have other people around the Scripture Engagement team leaders. In fact, there are actually two. 

12:00
John Ndemba
One is the main lead and the other is working within closely to make sure that we get Scripture Engagement activities each time we go to the field. Their role is, first of all to make sure that they revive Scripture Engagement activities in the community, or make sure that they give more training and more ability to the community to be able to engage with scriptures if they have not been doing so. And so this is the SURAM team, and everybody has a very specific role, but each time we try to make sure that our roles are interconnected so that everybody knows a little bit of what the other does, so we don’t have lapses when situations arise. 

12:45
Mike Kuhn
Yeah. And beyond the team, there are many other stakeholders in the project, the funding partners, even LBT is included. So we thank LBT and its partners for contributing to SURAM in Cameroon. But LBT Canada is also involved. Onebook Canada is involved. Wycliffe, Netherlands Wycliffe, UK-there are many different organizations that have contributed to SURAM over the last two years, but it’s exciting because this is a joint project for all of the Bible translation organizations in Cameroon. Certainly SIL is very involved. LBT is involved through the Lutheran church here, but even the Bible Society is involved. So we have projects that were served by all of these different Bible translation organizations. And then, of course, the last but not least of the stakeholders is the participating communities. 

13:40
Mike Kuhn
There were 28 language communities that dedicated scriptures between 2007 and 2017, and were able to visit and do ministry and research in 25 of the 28 languages. So it’s a big project, and I think it served a lot of people and has also collected a lot of data to help orient Bible translation and ministry moving forward. 

14:04
Emily Wilson
That’s wonderful and just for my understanding and visualization. So Scripture use, Scripture engagement looks very different for each language community as far as different tools for digging in deeper. So, audiovisual literacy. Are there other forms that you’ve seen among these 25 language communities that you have been interviewing? 

14:33
John Ndemba
Yes. It is important to note that as different as the cultures of these different languages and communities are, the different communities prefer the different tools to be able to engage with Scriptures. And we can’t say for sure right now which community prefers what, because all of that, our data is going to actually tell us with some scientific proofs. But what we discovered in the field is quite interesting, that not all the communities use the same tools. There are different communities that prefer different tools. At the end, we are trying to see a situation where we would have the different communities maybe preferring the different, kind of, Scripture Engagement tools, and we might even have reasons why they prefer that. We are hoping so maybe we would just stay tuned. When the data will come up, we will be able to tell you more. 

15:34
Rich Rudowske
So, in that vein, what are some of the initial answers or outcomes or findings that you guys have discovered in these early stages of visiting and beginning to process some of this information. 

15:47
Mike Kuhn
Yeah, I’ll take that question. So we have all the data, and even just this week we’ve been working hard, kind of, clean up the data to prepare it for analysis. But unfortunately we haven’t actually done any of the analysis to find any answers yet and not at least on the whole set. We did do a midstream analysis to see whether the data was holding up and if it was going to produce the results were looking for. The project is what’s called an exploratory factor analysis study. We’re trying to understand the factors that are meaningful for Bible translation and impact. And the early analysis that we did find five factors that seem meaningful for Bible translation. 

16:28
Mike Kuhn
But since this is going to be published broadly, I’d rather wait and see what the actual full set of data shows before we let that cat out of the bag. 

16:38
Emily Wilson
Absolutely. So as far as you’re working through, as you’re looking at some of the initial findings, what is it that you’ve learned that you weren’t necessarily expecting? Or what are some things that you’re like? Yeah, that’s tracking… 

16:59
John Ndemba
Though, the SURAM Cameroon project has given us a lot of experiences. Some of them were actually expecting, some other expectations were just not, we didn’t actually see them coming. I want to say talk about a particular community, a very small community, let me call it “small” in quote, that we went to. And this community actually has some humanitarian crisis. It means we are talking about a community that has, you know, about Boko Haram. It’s just at the borders of where these guys come in to perpetrate violence. But this community shocked us in the way they actually engage with Scriptures. They lead and engage with Scriptures as if they have heard that Jesus is coming the next minute. We actually got so surprised because even though they are entangled or encycled with such dangers, it’s a community that has not given up. 

18:18
John Ndemba
The way we met them and the way they see Scriptures, the way they love their Scriptures is quite amazing. We were quite surprised by this kind of zeal and interest for the Gospel. There are quite so many things, but this particular one caught our interest that much even at the day of celebration, because we have in our methodology, at the end of our stay in that community, we actually do a celebration to bring everyone together so we can celebrate the language together. And so we had more than 2500 persons gathered together to praise God for their language. And we had all sorts of animation traditionally which went to praise for what they have we have not seen throughout the project this kind of mobilization and zeal for God. 

19:15
John Ndemba
I want to keep the right of not mentioning the community’s name, but I think these are one of the things that actually caught us, and we are still living with it right now. There are many of that maybe Reverend will talk about more. 

19:30
Mike Kuhn
I want to say two things to jump off from what John was saying. One of the hypotheses in the project was saying that where the spiritual climate is hard and there’s an intentional strategy to use God’s Word, it improves Scripture use. And I think that’s something that anecdotally we can definitely say seems to have been borne out a lot of the places went. There are difficult places to be a Christian, the difficult places to confess our faith in Christ. But it almost seems like when it’s hard and when the backdrop is dark in a spiritual sense, the light of the Gospel among those Christians shines all the brighter that came through in this one visit that he mentioned, but a number of other ones as well come to mind. 

20:14
Mike Kuhn
When I think about that same dynamic, I do want to say one thing that I thought was so remarkable about this context where he’s talking about. Again, we love the aspect of SURAM that wants to support the local church in using Scripture as well. It’s not just research, it’s also ministry, trying to help churches and Christians and groups to use Scripture all the more. 

20:33
John Ndemba
So. 

20:33
Mike Kuhn
Yeah. Again, every time we go, we’re working with focus groups, we’re working with congregational groups, trying to help them to see different ways they can be using the scriptures. And we always give them the challenge when we meet with them. There will be a celebration at the end of the week. So prepare something, write a song, prepare a sketch, memorize some Scripture in your language, and then you’ll have an opportunity to present it or share it with everybody who’s there. And in this one place, I wasn’t even there, but they took a picture from the middle of the crowd, and it was just wall to wall people. It was such an inspiring thing to see so many people that gathered together to celebrate their scriptures and to rejoice in God’s word being in their language. It was wonderful. 

21:13
Emily Wilson
That is amazing to not only have the Scripture in their hands, but also that celebration and that focus and shining that light. As you were saying, too, that even people who are not familiar with the Christian faith, that they’re seeing this gathering and celebration of the language, and that draws people in to ask questions and to engage too and equipping people to feel more comfortable, to talk about their faith. And that’s just wonderful. So thinking about the encouragement of our listeners, what is it that would be the next step for each of these language communities and the result of the study? What’s the ideal? 

22:00
Mike Kuhn
Yeah, I think we can think about each context that participated and also the broader Bible translation movement. Certainly our prayer for each of the communities that participated in the project, is that going back to them, working with their leaders again, meeting with the different groups in the churches and encouraging them and showing them different ways they can use the Scripture? We certainly hope that it will shore up scripture use in each of these places and to more people hearing the Gospel, having lives transformed and changed in each of the communities that participated. 

22:38
Mike Kuhn
We also definitely hope that the results of the findings of the research will be able to share it with each of the communities as well, to help them to see exactly how much the scriptures are being used, what’s going really well, but also what they could maybe do better so that in each of these places they can be a bit more strategic and pointed in how they work with their communities, work with the Christians in the communities to have even more use of the scriptures that have been dedicated in their context. But certainly SURAM also aims to address a broader need in the Bible translation movement, which is to have, I know some people don’t like saying best practices, but there’s the first phrase that comes to mind. 

23:22
Mike Kuhn
What are some of the things to really look for in a community, in a context, before you even start a translation project, as you’re going on with the transition project, in a team and a community, what are some of the things to try to make sure are being done and make sure are being produced along the way, to make sure that we’re aiming at impact, not just publishing books. One of the things I love about the project is that we are looking at impact. We’re trying to understand places that have high impact and places that have low impact, and what are the things that seem to correlate between each of those contexts and some of the things that we’re measuring. 

23:55
Mike Kuhn
If we can find things that across the board continuously show up for high impact places and we can aim at those things, making sure that they’re present. Our hope and prayer is that this will lead to more communities not just having scripture, but also being impacted and transformed by having those scriptures. 

24:12
John Ndemba
I just want to add that the Bible agencies here in Cameroon, when they were signing the memorandum of understanding, they actually took an engagement to be able to see that these practices, these recommendations, because we are going to have a good number of recommendations that will come from the analysis that we will have. And then this recommendation, they actually took an engagement to say, whatever recommendations come, we will make sure that these recommendations are implemented so that we can have a better way of looking at Bible translation and every other thing that goes with Bible translation for a better impact in communities, like Reverend was saying. 

25:02
Rich Rudowske
Yeah. So we are really excited to talk about the results when the project is finished. And you guys can know that we’ll be calling you back to be on the podcast to go over those results and unpack those further for us. So we’re looking forward to that. In the meantime, how can we be praying for you? Start with you, John. As the coordinator of the project, as we’re coming into this important data analysis stage and the last leg of the work, how can we be praying for you? 

25:32
John Ndemba
Yes, thank you very much. This is a very important aspect for us, prayers think if we are up to this stage, it’s because of a lot of prayers. A lot of prayers. First of all, before we give supplications, we want to give thanksgiving. God has been able to keep every one of us and in good health as we started the project, moving through the communities that we visited, although we had challenges with three communities that we didn’t visit at all, so we did 25 out of 28. One community was actually a very red danger zone with the ongoing crisis. And then two other communities were just not receptive to the idea of SURAM. So we could not penetrate into the community, so we had to put them aside. 

26:22
John Ndemba
So we want to thank God that he gave us good health and success through the 25 communities. And so you’ll be helping us thank God with that. And then secondly, we want to keep asking God to keep us together, united, give us wisdom as we go through the data. We want to really say God is working in a miraculous way because we have a colleague helping us with coding to be able to clean our data to get them ready for analysis. He came in just in time so we see God’s hand in everything that we are doing. So wisdom as we continue to get the project to the end and write the report, then thanking God for everything that he has been able to accomplish through us for this point. 

27:13
Rich Rudowske
And Pastor Mike, how can we pray for you guys? 

27:15
Mike Kuhn
Sure. I think it’s never too early to pray for harvest. We’re really excited about what the findings of the research component of the project will be able to provide to Bible translation movement. Please be praying for us as we analyze the data and as we write a report that God would be in all and work through it all to help us communicate effectively to the different stakeholders in Bible translation around the world so that we can work in a way that aims at impact in more and more language communities moving forward. That’s really the biggest prayer request, is that what we produce and what we find will help the church and help the different Bible translation mission organizations to be able to do better work moving forward in the years to come. 

28:04
Emily Wilson
Well, we thank you both for joining us on the podcast and for your steadfast work and ministry among the language communities, the 25 language communities and more to come among Cameroon, but also supporting the larger Bible translation movement around the world. So thank you both so much. 

28:25
Mike Kuhn
Thank you. 

28:26
John Ndemba
Thank you very much for inviting us on the podcast. Thank you. 

28:36
Rich Rudowske
So you could probably tell from the interview that I’m really excited for the results of the SURAM study and to dig in a little bit more and really find out about what impact Scripture is having, where there’s possibility for improvement or adjustments, and to really just hear how things have played out in these communities where God’s word is newly available. And I do love the part that for every one of those communities they go into, they talk about what’s happening, and then they intentionally gather to celebrate the language and the culture as well. 

29:08
Emily Wilson
Yeah, that celebration, I think, is key. And being able to, I had this imagery of being a city on a hill, that light that is shining forth in their community and surrounding communities, that God’s Word is worth celebrating, their language is worth celebrating. And bringing those two together is a beautiful thing. And we just want to encourage you to continue to be praying for language communities in Cameroon and around the world. And you can find out more on our website at Lutheran Bible Translators. So that’s lbt.org and want to encourage you to look specifically at our programs page and see how you can be involved in prayer and supporting these language communities. 

29:54
Rich Rudowske
Yeah, it’s really exciting that 2024 is the 60th anniversary year of Lutheran Bible Translators, and folks like John and Mike are just one snapshot of the way that God is at work currently and has been at work for 60 years in our organization. And we want to invite you to celebrate that with us, too, and see how God’s at work by checking out lbt.org and finding the programs page. 

30:19
Rich Rudowske
Thank you for listening to the Essentially Translatable podcast brought to you by Lutheran Bible Translators. You can find past episodes of the podcast lbt.org/podcast or subscribe on Audible, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. Follow Lutheran Bible Translator’s social media channels on Facebook, Instagram or Twitter. Or go to lbt.org to find out how you can get involved in the Bible translation movement and put God’s Word in their hands. The Essentially Translatable podcast is edited and produced by Audrey Seider. Our executive producer is Emily Wilson. Artwork designed by Sarah Rudowske. Music written and performed by Rob Veith. I’m Rich Rudowske. So long for now.