Confidence in Christ

00:01
Dr. Tom Egger
Luther knew from his own experience, as well as from the testimony of scripture, how powerful and life giving the written words of God out of the Bible are, and what a firm confidence they give us in Christ and in his plans and promises for us. 

00:25
Rich Rudowske
Welcome to the essentially translatable podcast brought to you by Lutheran Bible translators. I’m Rich Rudowske. 

00:31
Emily Wilson
And I’m Emily Wilson. 

00:32
Rich Rudowske
And we recently celebrated two years of the essentially translatable podcast. It’s been a lot of fun to look at the different aspects of God’s mission and talk to church leaders and missionary practitioners and folks in the Bible translation and education and other related ministries all over the world these past couple of years, and to share that with you. 

00:52
Emily Wilson
And we also want to encourage you that all the content that you are hearing that we want it to be shared. So if you know individuals who just have a heart for God’s mission and are looking for ways to get involved, whether by praying or by supporting, just being an advocate is a huge gift. So a simple share of an email or on social media for the podcast is a huge gift because we want people to hear the stories. We know that they’re impactful and we don’t want it to be like hiding our light under a basket. Right? Just get it out there. 

01:32
Rich Rudowske
Light for everyone. 

01:33
Emily Wilson
Yeah. So we want to encourage you in that. But also, this interview today with President Tom Egger of Concordia Seminary St. Louis is just a really great one to share because at the seminary you have church leaders going out all over the nation, over the world. Even so, he’s got a great perspective to share. 

01:58
Rich Rudowske
Yeah. Dr. Tom Egger has been a professor of old Testament theology at Concordia Seminary since 2005 and was appointed president of Concordia Seminary in 2021. We had a great conversation with him and we’re looking forward to sharing it with you. Okay. We are here today with Dr. Tom Egger, the president of Concordia Seminary in St. Louis, where were just there a couple of days ago as of the recording time, to welcome a couple of students that we called into ministry with Lutheran Bible translators. And it was great to be with you and to call those missionaries from the Sem [Concordia Seminary, St. Louis]. The seminary is really important as a partner to us in Lutheran Bible translators, as we find in the Bible translation movement. 

02:38
Rich Rudowske
People will always say, hey, when Lutheran Bible Translators brings people to the scene, you have the best prepared and educated people, and certainly Concordia Seminary is a big part of that for us. So it’s great to be in partnership with you and welcome you to the podcast. 

02:49
Dr. Tom Egger
I appreciate you having me. Great to be here with you. 

02:52
Rich Rudowske
We’d like to have our listeners get to know you a little bit. Can you tell us a little bit about your background, how you got involved in ministry and ultimately became the president of Concordia seminary? 

03:02
Dr. Tom Egger
Sure. Well, I grew up in a Lutheran family in eastern Iowa and went to church every Sunday. My parents had us in the pew every Sunday and in weekday classes on Wednesday nights. And church was just very much a given in our lives and a constant routine which I think impressed on us. What a priority it was for our parents, what a treasured and beloved thing the gospel was to them and the life of the church. I heard my pastors every Sunday telling me about my savior. And as I got older, one of my pastors, Pastor Marlon Renfor, the pastor who confirmed me, encouraged me to think about the ministry. 

03:45
Dr. Tom Egger
And as I thought about all the different things to do in life, it just seemed to me like the most valuable thing of all was the good news of what Jesus has done for us. And I had so valued having pastors in my life who told me about my savior week after week. And so I guess just the influence of my upbringing and God’s Word and the life of the church and the direct encouragement of pastors set me on that path. Also, my older brother studied for the ministry, which was, I’m sure, also a major factor in my thinking about that. And one other thing I should mention, especially with theme of what we’ll be talking about today, is my father would always encourage us to be regularly reading the Bible and he would give us Bible reading schedules a year long. 

04:36
Dr. Tom Egger
Read the whole Bible in a year schedule. 

04:39
Emily Wilson
Wow. 

04:39
Dr. Tom Egger
And I did that a number of times as a fairly young child, probably the first. I don’t think I was very successful staying with it the whole year as a nine year old or a ten year old. But I gave it a try and especially in my teens, became more consistent and just am so thankful for the power of God’s word to place hope in Jesus in our hearts and to maintain it there and to help us to see the world as God’s world and see ourselves as God’s children. 

05:12
Emily Wilson
That’s awesome. So your current role as president of the seminary, what does that look like? For those of us who are lady, that we’re not seeing all of the behind the scenes, what does that look like? 

05:24
Dr. Tom Egger
Yeah. Well, the seminary has a beautiful calling. We prepare those who will be servants of the word out in the church. So students come to the seminary and are grounded in the study of the scriptures the study of the central doctrines that arise from the scriptures, the study of church history that gives them a wise historical perspective on the life of the church and the practices of ministry, teaching, counseling, preaching, pastoral leadership. And so I was called here back in 2005 to teach Old Testament. I am an Old Testament professor and still teach a little bit the books of the Old Testament and the Hebrew language, which the Old Testament was originally written in, and then just a year ago was appointed here as president. And the balance of my responsibilities has changed quite a bit. 

06:16
Dr. Tom Egger
I used to tell people I have the best job in the world. They pay me to study the Bible and to stand around and talk about the Bible with people who are preparing to be pastors and deaconesses and leaders in the church. And I can’t think of a better thing to get paid for a greater privilege than to be able to spend your days studying God’s word and discussing God’s word and its wisdom and its testimony about Jesus and the comfort and the purpose and the direction that it gives us in life. Now, I’m not sure I have the best job in the world anymore, but I love what I do. 

06:56
Dr. Tom Egger
And it’s full of advocating for the seminary out in the broader church, seeking support for the seminary, giving kind of overall guidance and direction, and really just encouraging our faculty, encouraging our staff in the great work that they do, and setting a tone for the seminary’s reason for existence and purpose, which is to continue to pass on the faith that we’ve received and to ground future workers of the church in Christ and his word. 

07:28
Emily Wilson
So you taught Old Testament, you taught Hebrew. Within that, you also have an interest listed in your bio and expertise of talking about the nature and authority of scripture. Can you share a little bit about what does that mean? 

07:44
Dr. Tom Egger
Yeah, well, in very simple terms, it means that we believe that the written scriptures are God’s own testimony to us. They are his word, and that it’s our role as creatures, and even more specifically, as disciples of Jesus. It’s our role to listen to those words, and after we’ve heard them and sought understanding, to say amen to what God has spoken. It’s not our place to stand in judgment over God’s word or try to filter or correct it, but it’s our word to treasure it, to receive it in our hearts, and to bow before it in joyful submission, and to find life in God’s word. 

08:31
Dr. Tom Egger
And that sounds pretty obvious, but actually, theologically and within the broader church, especially the church in the western world, in the last three or 400 years, it’s no longer taken for granted that even within the church, we will be in a posture of humble discipleship before God’s word. And there are a lot of very complex rationales that have been developed and that have gained a real foothold in certain circles by which people distance themselves from the claims of God’s word or justify dismissing certain portions of God’s word. And it’s important to be engaged with those different approaches and to be able to respond to them. 

09:19
Dr. Tom Egger
And so a part of my study has been to do a fair amount of reading broadly outside of our own circles in the kinds of ways in which people rationalize standing above God’s word rather than standing humbly under God’s word, and then to find ways to respond to that and to encourage the church to continue in a position of humble discipleship rather than a dismissiveness or a mastery over God’s word. 

09:51
Emily Wilson
Yeah. And that is just so core, too, like within Bible translation, the gift that God’s word is in people’s hands, because there’s all kinds of theologies and schools of thought and philosophies that might rock people this way and that way. But God’s word being the pure foundation for our faith, is just. It can’t be dismissed or just overlooked that, okay, how is it that we focus our attention on what it is that we believe? And is it from man, or is it from God’s word? So we’re celebrating this fact with Martin Luther translating the New Testament about 500 years ago. We’re coming up later this year, but we’re in a year long celebration of Martin Luther’s translation of the New Testament into the vernacular. 

10:46
Emily Wilson
You know, there’s just so much that we’ve talked about in our articles and other interviews, but really, what is it that you see from Martin Luther and the people who spoke the german language? What changed for them based off of his translation? 

11:04
Dr. Tom Egger
Yeah, well, if you look back in church history, all kinds of things changed when the scriptures came into the vernacular, when they came into the language of the people. And I think you could sum it all up by saying the Bible itself came to have a more central place in the overall life of the church. So even within theological education at the time of Luther, in his own upbringing, the preparation of future pastors focused not so much on a study of the Bible itself, but the study of the tradition of commentary on the Bible. And they would study books that kind of digested key sentences or key comments on the scriptures, but there wasn’t a lot of rich study of the text of the Bible itself. 

11:53
Dr. Tom Egger
And it’s kind of an ironic thing, I think, that at the very same time that they were rediscovering the Bible’s original languages, Greek and Hebrew, and going back to those original texts, because at the time of Luther, of course, the church worshipped in and studied in Latin, and all of the focus was on the scriptures in Latin. At the very same time that they were going back and focusing on Greek and Hebrew, they were also putting these texts of scripture, bringing them, beginning with Luther’s New Testament translation, into the language of common people, the various vernacular languages of Europe, beginning with German. I find with my own work at the seminary, we have the same dynamic. We focus on the original languages. 

12:41
Dr. Tom Egger
We take the time to prepare future pastors with the knowledge of Greek and a knowledge of Hebrew so that they can carefully and deeply study the scriptures in the language of the prophets and the apostles. But in order to do that realistically, in an effective way, they also have to have a good understanding of the whole lay of the land of the scriptures, the whole council of God. And very few people will gain such expertise in Hebrew and Greek, for whom that’s always a second language. Very few people will gain such expertise that they can really read large swaths of the scripture and gain a sense of the whole forest. 

13:23
Dr. Tom Egger
And so to be able to study the scriptures well, it’s useful to know the original languages so that you can study the trees and every flower underneath the trees, but also so that you can see those trees within the forest. It’s so valuable to have the scriptures in our own familiar language for us English, and we benefit greatly then, from studying both in the original languages and in modern vernacular translations. So that was going on at the time of Luther, a greater study of the scripture, also the hymnity of the church was greatly enriched. There was an explosion of new hymnity that I think was inspired by the rich language and imagery of scripture that was more accessible to people. And hymnity, then, also in the language of the people, not just Latin. Hymnity and the place of the Bible in homes really changed. 

14:16
Dr. Tom Egger
And, of course, that was a combination, both of the translation into German, but also the invention of the printing press that allowed people to have bibles in their homes and parents really having a greater opportunity to bring scripture into the ears and hearts of their children in rich ways. 

14:36
Rich Rudowske
Yeah, of course, we focus on Luther as mainly a german speaker and then doing that translation work in the german language. But how did that affect people outside of the german population immediately and into the future? 

14:50
Dr. Tom Egger
Yeah, well, we are on the trail end of that. We’re still swimming in the same river so far upstream. Was Luther’s move to really this major philosophical shift, or shift in church practice to say, no, the scriptures won’t be maintained only in Latin, so that only sort of the approved and highly educated few can access them and give them to the rest of us. But the scriptures now became accessible to all christians and even people outside the church, and now have been translated into hundreds and hundreds of languages. And we ourselves can go to a Christian publisher online and find so many different versions and options in terms of the scripture and packagings of scripture in our own language. And that followed pretty quickly after Luther into various languages. 

15:54
Emily Wilson
So one of the famous quotes that we like to pull out from Martin Luther is that I wish that every village had its own interpreter and that this book alone would live in the hands, eyes, ears and hearts of all people. So what do you think that sentiment should mean to us as Lutherans who value the nature and the authority of scripture? 

16:18
Dr. Tom Egger
Yeah. Well, Luther knew from his own experience, as well as from the testimony of scripture, how powerful and life giving the words of God, the written words of God out of the Bible are and what a firm confidence they give us in Christ and in his plans and promises for us. He knew that book can easily be pushed out of the middle in people’s daily lives, even in the life of the church. He had seen that in church history. He was rejoicing to hopefully see a new day. He had a very living sense of the reality of the devil and his work to keep the Bible as a closed book for us. And so Luther has many quotes encouraging christians to have this word in their ears and hearts. 

17:05
Dr. Tom Egger
Just think of our own lives and think of all of the words and the messages and the stories that are all around us and that compete for our time, that compete for our eyes and our ears and our hearts. And this is what Luther’s talking about. He’s saying, this one book, the Bible, is of such supreme importance that it alone needs to have primary place in the middle of our lives, in the middle of our schedules. He even warned people against putting too much emphasis on his own writings. And if you look at the collection of Luther’s writings on a bookshelf, he did a lot of writing, and people did hold on to his writings, but he was a little concerned about was. 

17:51
Dr. Tom Egger
He kind of had a mixed feelings about the fact that he himself had produced so many writings, because he constantly encouraged people. The Bible, the Bible. The Bible needs to be at the center, and even human writings can come in and displace it. 

18:07
Rich Rudowske
Yeah. So that leads me to think about, again, the formation task at the seminary. In the way that theological education happens in the academy. You have this split and focus on different aspects of a systematic theology, a historical theology, an exegetical theology. But why is it so important for men and women studying at the seminary. To have God’s word at the center of their ministry? And how does that fit in with the way that theological education is done? Or how do you see that as a challenge to handle? 

18:37
Dr. Tom Egger
Well, at the seminary, we are mindful, at least. I certainly constantly encourage my students. That they need to have two places in their life for the study of Scripture. At least one is as a part of their regular work with their Seminary studies. And we certainly strive to place the scriptures. At the center of their theological preparation at the seminary. Which means studying Greek, studying Hebrew, and then studying the books of the Old and New Testament carefully and thoroughly with an eye towards their own lives. And with an eye towards their future care of souls, preaching and teaching in the life of the contemporary Church. So their studies here have them engaged with the scriptures. But I also remind them that there’s only so much we can do with that. In the three years that they’re on campus here, plus their vicarage. 

19:39
Dr. Tom Egger
We won’t be going through everything in scripture together. And there will be times and certain terms. Where their studies themselves will be lighter on the scriptures than other semesters. And so I really encourage students to develop a discipline of reading the Bible on their own, independently, devotionally, for their own spiritual nourishment. And not just as a part of coursework. However, having said that, we certainly don’t approach the scriptures, as I said before, as a dry, detached academic exercise in the Classroom. We certainly are always reading the scriptures with an eye towards what is the central message of these texts. How do they connect with Christ? What do they say about who I am as a redeemed child of God in Christ? And what do they say about God’s calling for my life. And the life of christian service and Christian Love? 

20:41
Dr. Tom Egger
It’s always a student involving. A self involving approach to scripture. Rather than a detached or impersonal study of the text. But as much as we strive for that in the classroom, it’s still essential that the students develop their own discipline and love for the scriptures and DedicatioN of time with the scriptures on their OwN, EvEN apart from their classes. Now, the Bible, of course, comes into play, not simply in courses about the Old Testament or the New Testament. But our doctrine classes are rich with scripture. Lutheran doctrine is drawn from scripture. We’re a sola scriptura church. So the classes that they take in systematic theology, doctrine, those are rich with scripture and directly connected to the scriptures. 

21:28
Dr. Tom Egger
Church history is in many ways a story of how the church has related itself to the scriptures and the kinds of use, the kinds of approaches to scripture that it’s taken over time. So that has to do with their understanding of scripture as well, and then their study of the practices of ministry, too. Pastoral counseling, teaching, preaching, all of those things are directly tied to the place of the life of scripture in an individual Christian and in the life of the church. And so seminary life and seminary instruction is all about the word of God, and certainly is the centerpiece of what we do. 

22:07
Emily Wilson
So scripture is the foundation for our faith, but also for being invited into God’s mission, what he is doing, what he’s calling us to as his ambassadors, sharing his word and his love with others. So this missional mindset that individuals have at the seminary as they’re preparing for their ministry, how is that foundation in God’s word? How does that impact their service in the parish, do you think? 

22:36
Dr. Tom Egger
Yeah, well, that is a great question, and I guess I have a couple of thoughts that raises in my mind. One is that their calling as pastors for the church has to be something much richer than I’m going to go out and share my wisdom with the church. I always warn my students how easy it is, even though it sounds so obvious that this would be a dangerous and a wrong path. It becomes so easy for pastors to kind of gain a sense of, yeah, I know what Christianity is all about. I know what the church is all about. And now I can just kind of go on autopilot and just gorge forth from the fountain of my being all of this knowledge and wisdom and practical advice for life. 

23:27
Dr. Tom Egger
And I warned them how easily their own voice and their own thoughts and their own common sense can begin to co opt their judgment, and they can find themselves just speaking out of themselves rather than from the word of God. And so engagement with the word of God for pastors has to be something that extends far beyond their seminary days, but has to be an ongoing, constant discipline and practice. Because Christ sheep don’t need to hear the voice of Tom Egger or rich Rudowski. Christ’s sheep need to hear the voice of their shepherd. They need to hear the life giving voice of Christ speaking through his prophets, speaking through his apostles. And that’s the message that on our good days, that’s what’s coming out of our mouths as well. 

24:17
Dr. Tom Egger
But what it requires is an ongoing listening ourselves on the part of pastors to God’s word. So there’s that. I think that’s so important as the church goes about her work and her mission, that the pastors of the church are themselves continuing to immerse themselves in God’s word so that they really are speaking from the Lord. And the other thing I think that’s so important to the church’s mission is the scriptures show us the hard truth that humanity stands under the judgment of God, and that there is a wonderful hope that’s been given life in the name of Jesus and through his saving work, but only in that name and only through his saving work. 

25:05
Dr. Tom Egger
And that apart from Jesus Christ and the knowledge of his gospel, having been born again through God’s spirit, through this life giving word, humanity stands without hope and without God in the world, apart from this testimony of Jesus Christ and what he’s done. And it’s so easy to live life, especially in our pluralistic society, and think, well, my religious convictions are nice and I love Jesus and I value him, and I want some other people to know him too. But it’s so easy to lose sense of that black and white urgency that apart from Jesus Christ, humanity stands under the wrath and judgment of God. The Bible wakes you up to this reality. The Bible speaks in some very stark and oftentimes even disturbing terms about the plight of our race of humanity apart from Christ because of our fallen, broken, damnable condition. 

26:13
Dr. Tom Egger
And we just don’t come across that message or that reality, just approaching life through our own eyes or our daily experience, God’s word sets that before us. And though it testifies to this enormous love of God for sinners in Jesus Christ, it also testifies to the necessity that sinners hear about that love through the gospel. And it energizes the words of the Bible, energize the church’s mission in that way. 

26:48
Emily Wilson
So given all of that, of how God’s word is irreplaceable and that it is the foundation and all of the other voices, as you mentioned, in a pluralistic society, in a lot of the language communities around the world that have many other voices vying for attention or other religions to choose from, why is it that you are passionate about God’s word being in all languages? 

27:17
Dr. Tom Egger
Yeah, well, it’s God’s will that it be so. And he desires all men to come to the knowledge of truth and be saved. And he’s using his word to extend that message to all this. Last term here at the seminary, I taught a course on Genesis one through eleven. And the final reading that we studied was the tower of Babel. And this confusion of all languages and the way that disrupts communication among humanity, it disrupts them, accomplishing great purposes to some extent, because God knew that their inclinations were evil, and he used that confusion to limit the extent of the evil that we could do in the world. But in the coming of Christ, this dynamic, even in God’s own economy and plan, is reversed. 

28:03
Dr. Tom Egger
Right at Pentecost, the Spirit gives people understanding to hear the proclamation of the disciples in their own languages and gives comprehension and then sends the church out to people of all nations and tribes and languages, and for God’s word, then to be translated, his written word, translated into all these languages, serves that task so beautifully. Here recently, during Holy Week, I was struck by the crucifixion of Jesus in the Gospel of John, and above his head on the cross is written the king of the Jews. And it’s written not just in Aramaic, the language of the people, but also in Greek and Latin. This idea that, though it’s dramatic iRony, they were mocking him by putting that sign there in God’s plans. This is a picture of this proclamation that’s to go all, in all languages, right there on the cross itself. 

29:05
Dr. Tom Egger
The Gospel, He is the king. And it’s put in multiple languages so that people of various languages can begin to see and understand and rejoice that man on the cross is the son of God, the savior of the world, the king of the Jews and the king of kings. And from that time, from that cross and empty tomb, the message has gone to all nations. And now the scriptures are also being translated into the languages of all nations. It’s a beautiful thing because it’s God’s own plan, and it really flows from his heart. He loves sinners. He loves sinners, and people of all nations are sinners, and he is at work bringing them to salvation in Christ. 

29:51
Rich Rudowske
Yeah. Amen. That’s a powerful word. Appreciate that. How can our listeners be praying for you and for the ministry of Concordia seminary? 

30:00
Dr. Tom Egger
Well, thanks for that question. And what an encouragement when so many people say they are praying for our work. I guess, pray for wisdom, pray for workers, for the harvest. One of the great challenges that faces the lutheran church Missouri synod, and therefore her two seminaries, is numbers of future church workers. And Jesus says that the harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. And he tells us, pray. Pray that God will send workers into the harvest. So I would really encourage people, first of all, to pray to God that he will raise up more pastors and deaconesses and missionaries and lutheran school teachers and church musicians and so forth to serve the church, to serve the gospel in the church, and that they themselves would be encouraging people to do so. 

30:54
Dr. Tom Egger
So pray for wisdom for all who lead here at the seminary, those who teach and serve here, and for our students and pray for more church workers. 

31:03
Emily Wilson
We really want to thank you for joining us on the podcast, President Egger, and we will certainly be keeping you in prayer as you serve. 

31:12
Rich Rudowske
Yeah, thanks for being with us. 

31:14
Dr. Tom Egger
Yeah, it’s been my pleasure. And thanks to you and to Lutheran Bible translators for all of the great work that you do. We are delighted to have a good partnership with you and delighted that some of our graduates are going on to serve with your really important work. 

31:33
Emily Wilson
As promised, it was a great interview with President Egger and he was able to share about what are the exciting things happening at the seminary, but also those foundational roots that we have in scripture and that it is in scripture alone that we have our hope that we have the foundation for our faith. And so it was great to be able to chat about that further, especially in light of the 500th anniversary of Martin Luther translating the New Testament. 

32:01
Rich Rudowske
Yes, and we have a great partnership with Concordia Seminary. We’re looking forward to one of the milestone events celebrating the 500th anniversary being at Concordia Seminary later this fall. And folks want to find out more about all these 500th anniversary celebrations going on. Where are they going to go? 

32:17
Emily Wilson
Go lbt.org 500. You’re going to be able to find resources sharing a little bit about Martin Luther and his journey, but also, what does this mean for us as the church and being able to lean into Bible translation ministry and how we are growing and what God is doing around the world as well as having events. Because we said this is a celebration, so we got a party. 

32:44
Rich Rudowske
That’s right. 

32:44
Emily Wilson
So find all of that at go lbt.org 500. 

32:50
Rich Rudowske
Thank you for listening to the essentially translatable podcast brought to you by Lutheran Bible translators. You can find past episodes of the podcast@lbt.org podcast or subscribe on audible, Apple Podcast, Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. Follow Lutheran Bible translators social media channels on Facebook, Instagram or Twitter. Or go to lbt.org to find out how you can get involved in the Bible translation movement and put God’s word in their hands. This episode of essentially translatable was produced and edited by Andrew Olson. Our executive producer is Emily Wilson. Podcast artwork was created by Caleb Rotewald and Sarah Lyons. Music written and performed by Rob Weit. I’m rich Rudowski. So long for now.